Tethers to our former selves
Part two of my interview with writer Meaghan Garvey. Plus, a new column called Oh Messy Life.
VANCOUVER — This week Human Pursuits is all about pushing boundaries.
A rare two-part interview with Meaghan Garvey — ethereal spirit, author of SCARY COOL SAD GOODBYE, one time Billie Eilish interviewer — which we’ll get to in just a moment.
But also (!) the debut of a new column.
It’s called Oh Messy Life, and it’s a short, sweet way for me (and you) to keep tabs on various friends of the ‘sletter. It’s inspired by Jason Stewart’s Substack column Rumours and Ramblings, but also from my time over on PI.FYI, and my family’s newsletters growing up.
In the 90s you could write stuff like “Ethan got a B+ on his math test” or “Grandma made a delicious roast” and people would read it. I want to go back to that.
I’ve been thinking a lot about newsletters as a genre. While I love the insightful long-form interviews and world-class essays that HP is known for, I appreciate that people don’t always have 22 minutes to read about Meaghan Garvey’s dating life (though it is fascinating; see below).
Oh Messy Life is a chance to tap in with Need-To-Know Names past, present, and future. If you think it’s cool, or even want to be included, let me know in the comments.
Also, since we’re talking “biz,” please consider upgrading your subscription or sending this email to someone who might enjoy it ❤❤❤
OK. Drum roll, please.
OH MESSY LIFE
- I’ve listened to The Tortured Poet’s Department twice now: once while walking to work via the Granville Street Bridge (I know, I know, mental illness!!!), and again when it was officially released last night. The lyrics are verging on deep lore at this point, and it’s a lot to process, but I will say it feels like a fairly grand artistic statement after the runaway success of Midnights. There are no obvious singles, but the songs are good. Don’t listen to the haters and losers.
- Before the second album dropped at 2 a.m. EST, Kate Lindsay had texted me saying she thought “eight” tracks were about Matty Healy. That number is now almost certainly higher.
- Speaking of divisive icons with a history of oversharing (complimentary) Yasi Salek is back with a new episode of Bandsplain. I haven’t listened yet, because it is over two hours, but I secretly hope this means Yasipedia gets updated soon.
- Finally, The Lads in Bealby Point are taking their show on the road this spring. Full dates coming soon, but Edmonton is on sale now. I highly recommend you buy a ticket. There will be many friends of the ‘sletter in attendance…
Okay, here’s Meaghan.
ES: I wanted to get your opinion on the state of some of our musical divas, seeing as Cher is your profile picture, and when I Google you, a picture of Lana Del Rey is one of the top results.
MG: Is it? I love that. That’s amazing.
ES: Right? But so I feel like we’re in the middle of a Dua Lipa flop. What say you?
MG: Has she put out anything other than “Houdini”? Or is that the only song?
ES: She also put out “Training Season”.
MG: I mean, “Houdini” is a flop for sure. I do a lot of hardcore Pilates classes and that song is yuppie Pilates music. I say that in a non-derogatory way.
I love Dua Lipa, though. All of the old-timers at my neighbourhood bar love her. It’s like a Scorpions type of vibe. They rock out to her. All these 65 and 70-year-old dudes have a soft spot for her, and no one else. I don’t know what it is.
ES: To be fair, Dua is too big to fail in any real sense. She can’t flop the way you or I could. She’s like Bear Stearns. But it just seems like these songs aren’t hitting the way one might expect.
MG: She’ll be fine. She has enough goodwill because she’s not annoying. She’s probably more destined to be an It Girl than a musician. Just a cool, hot girl.
ES: I’m increasingly convinced she’s reading those books she recommends in her newsletter. She has taste!
MG: Totally. I think so too.
ES: What about the Jojo Siwa of it all? We’re witnessing a massive rebrand, along with a new single, “Karma.”
MG: That song is more of a jock-jam than I thought it would be. I thought it would be more EDM. It’s kind of cool. I don’t think she knows how to speak in anything other than that sort of “HeY GuYs, WE’rE HeRe At NiCkLeOdEOn” way. I think she’s trapped in that mode which is so tragic.
ES: Yeah, she’s doing a ten-second bumper for the Disney channel.
MG: Exactly, for the rest of her life. I will probably never listen to the song again, but it’s certainly not trying to have a cool, sexy vibe. It’s almost like 80s stadium rock.
ES: Speaking of divas, you know friend of ‘sletter Yasi Salek. How did you two meet?
MG: We’ve never met her IRL. The first time we spoke was when I was on Bandsplain.
ES: That’s sick. I still haven’t been invited on Bandsplain yet, which I personally find very interesting.
MG: Laughs. Who would you want to do?
ES: The 1975, obviously.
MG: Oh my god. I don’t know. I think if it’s a band that presently has a lot of fans, it’s a bit of a liability.
ES: I know. I’m too hot for podcasting, which is why I need this free newsletter. But I forgot that you did Bandsplain.
MG: Yes, I did the episode about Mazzy Star.
ES: Wait, Mazzy Star has more than one album?
MG: Four! The third and fourth albums get less love, but they’re all worthwhile. They kind of lighten up over the years. Their fourth album is almost a cosmic country record, it has a warmer disposition. You should check it out.
ES: It’s kind of mind-blowing because “Fade Into You” feels like this timeless record. It’s almost a meme at this point. But then I remember Hope Sandoval (Mazzy Star’s lead singer) is still alive.
MG: Yeah she’s still alive. She’s probably not even 60 years old.
ES: That’s crazy. And she’s just completely out of the game?
MG: She makes music as Hope Sandoval & the Warm Inventions. But to give you a sense of perspective, Kurt Vile has done a record with her. How fucked up is that? Laughs.
ES: That is truly fucked up. They don’t seem like they’re from the same decade.
MG: I know. But yeah, she just hates fame and hates being in public, which is awesome.
ES: Bringing it back to Yasi, have you ever learned anything from Yasi? Whether productive or funny?
MG: How shall I put this… Yasi does her fucking homework. She is a more diligent reporter than half the jokers out here. But I like that her interviews feel organic. She isn’t asking people “So when did you start conceiving of this record? Where did you record?” Because I don’t give a fuck about anything musical. I don’t care how you played a particular part. I want to know where you ate, what’s your favourite restaurant, what’s your workout routine, what’s your sign. I don’t want to talk about music. We will get to that. I want to shoot the shit. That’s what I got from Yasi.
ES: This came up in the newsletter a couple of weeks ago. That the things you like are a character study, that they say something about you.
MG: In most traditional interviews with a musician you ask “What are you inspired by? What are you listening to?” The answer they give you is not really true. They’re saying something to tell you how to feel about the product that they’re peddling. Which is perfectly fine. We all do that. But I think you can learn more by asking them “What do you eat for breakfast?”
ES: Totally.
By the way, what did you eat for breakfast today?
MG: I eat the same thing basically every day, but it goes in phases. Right now, I’m feeling a soft scramble. Three eggs. Then I did an oatmeal shake with rolled oats, almond milk, vanilla, and cinnamon.
ES: That sounds delicious. Between your Christmas tree anecdote and this breakfast thing, it occurs to me you might have a hard time letting go of things.
MG: I can handle big-picture changes so well, you wouldn’t believe. It’s the small things I get hooked on. I love to eat the same thing for dinner for three months straight. I enjoy it. I look forward to it. But if I meet some guy and he says “Hey I love you. Move to Texas with me tomorrow.” I’ll be like, “Cool, got my suitcase packed.”
ES: Laughs. Who was the last guy to ruin your life?
MG: Ooh. Laughs.
Two guys ruined my life in 2020. One was a celebrated author. I was so proud of myself for dating him but he had another girl at the same time. I think they’re married and happy now, it’s none of my business. But I flew out to see him in Mississippi where he was living. I was there for five days and he broke up with me on the second day. I was like, “Shit, I’m in Mississippi now.” Then the COVID lockdown started. I was really in it then. We watched a lot of movies and then I went back to Chicago. Laughs. I was fucked up and acting insane at that point. I was bartending because I thought the journalism thing wasn’t working out for me.
As the lockdown carried on, some functions started happening. I went to a bonfire at the beach with my neighbours and I met a friend-of-a-friend. He seemed so normal. He dressed normally, he had a normal job, he drove a big American truck. I thought “Finally. Enough with these artists and musicians and freaking novelists. Let’s get a real American man.” Unfortunately, those Real American guys are the most psychotic of them all.
I started to get the feeling that things were off when his eyes turned completely black one night. Laughs.
ES: What!?
MG: I have this boat oar in my house. And he was sitting on my couch, and holding the oar on his lap, and his eyes were black. I swear to god I am not making this up. He had talked to me before about demons and whatnot, but I thought it was sort of run-of-the-mill Regular Joe Republican shit. He had that sort of vibe.
But then, after the oar incident, we went to a cabin. It was winter in the north woods of Wisconsin. Seven-hour drive, very cold and snowy. And when we got there he was like “I should just drown you in the lake out there.” The craziest thing is we were on molly when he said it. I was like “Get happy, get fun.” Please don’t drown me in the lake. Also, can I get a ride home? Also, once you drive me home I am never speaking to you again.
Bottom line: the “normal guys” are not normal. And that’s cool because I hate when people talk down about “normies” or whatever… Those people on the other side of the river are way weirder than you.
ES: Aside from Demon Eyes, have you ever seen something supernatural?
MG: I was in New Orleans last year because I was on this train trip. You can get from Chicago to New Orleans in 17.5 hours, it’s amazing. So I did that, and when I was there I went to this bar that’s like 300 years old. It has all this lore. Like, “Oh it’s haunted.” I thought “Yeah, whatever, everything is haunted down here.”
The ghost of this old bar was a man who had a dispute and had gambled his house away. The bar was his former house and the legend is that he would rather kill himself than let it be taken from him. Which is what he did. His ghost is in the room where he killed himself upstairs. I go upstairs and I’m in this room. It’s gorgeously appointed in this sort of 20s, 30s, boudoir style. There’s jazz music playing on the speakers — Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong — and it’s very cold. And I notice some fucking slovenly person, who doesn’t respect ghosts’ space, left their trash on the table. They left an old used-up lime and a crumpled-up napkin. And I’m sitting there, and I see the lime and the napkin move and disappear. It was as if this ghost was saying “Please forgive the mess. Let me get rid of this.” I have no explanation for it.
ES: We should talk about your newsletter. I noticed that you do a mix of paid and unpaid posts. I’d love to hear more about that strategy.
MG: Everything is free at first, to give people a chance to discover what I write. I’m not precious about it, or saying “This is only for subscribers.” I want people to read my stuff because I think I did a good job. Once a post is a couple of months old I’ll paywall it. But I’m not going to twist anyone’s arm. The minute you come off as needy people get turned off. I would do this shit for free but I like to make money.
ES: Totally. I always think it’s funny when people use paywalls to offer other things or access. Maybe it’s because I’m still beasting in the underground but I have a hard time imagining anyone wants to pay me for a Q&A or to join My Discord.
MG: I think the people who are paying for my Substack are doing it because they’re a fan of me as much as my writing. It’s a way to support someone they’ve been following you on the internet for ten years. I’m cashing in on the fact that I’ve been hanging around long enough. Plus, I don’t share a lot of my actual paid work, so maybe they think I’m struggling. Laughs. I’m doing pretty good, I have a secret corporate sellout job I don’t tell anyone about.
ES: Your newsletter is called SCARY COOL SAD GOODBYE. What is the saddest goodbye that you’ve ever experienced?
MG: It was probably the nicest person that I ever dated. His name is Barry. He was a really formative person in my life. I had just dropped out of college, my mother had recently died, and I hadn’t processed any of it… I was living with Barry in what I guess you would call a flop house in Indiana. He taught me so much. How to use torrents, he put me on all these message boards. I was already a music nerd but he gave me “the boy tools.” He was just a really nice person.
We parted ways because he was still going to school. He had to go back home, and I had to stop being a weird drifter living in his apartment, doing nothing with my life. We parted ways but maintained this sweet, sad, pathetic, conversation on Google Chat. We would talk all day about how listless and bored we were. “Guess I’ll go smoke another joint. Maybe I’ll try to find a job…” It was a melancholy futureless early 20s relationship. I remained in love with him and he remained, I guess, in love with me. I don’t know. He was living in New Hampshire and I was living in Chicago.
One day he drove to my house when I wasn’t expecting him to. He arrived at my apartment and he came in. I’d started dating this Canadian guy — this blog house producer. But Barry came in and we talked for an hour. And I told him “I think I have a boyfriend now.” He said, “Oh, okay.” And he got back in his car and drove back to New Hampshire. I didn’t hear from him for probably seven years after that. But then I got a DM one random night. He said, “Hey, I was just thinking of you from way back when, and I hope you haven’t changed too much.” It all came rushing back to me. I didn’t know how to respond so I didn’t.
Two weeks later I got a message from his roommate telling me Barry died. He overdosed in his sleep. And so, to answer your question, I guess it was his goodbye to me. I didn’t even say goodbye to him. But I hope that he knows I think more fondly of him than any man I’ve ever loved, even though we were children. I like to think it was a peaceful goodbye, but a sad one too.
ES: That’s so sad. I don’t know why I asked you this question.
MG: No, it’s okay. There’s very little that tethers me to who I was when I was 19 or 20 years old. But it’s nice to think there are still these threads, even through people who aren’t here anymore. I can use them to find my way back to what fleeting good moments there were then.
